India-China alliance ideal for Afghanistan: Hamid Karzai : The Tribune India

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India-China alliance ideal for Afghanistan: Hamid Karzai

NEW DELHI: Former Afghan President Hamid Karzai hopes Donald Trump will walk the talk on Pakistan and follow up on his recent fiery tweets with action. Exclusive interview with Tribune.

India-China alliance ideal for Afghanistan: Hamid Karzai

Hamid Karzai. File photo



Former Afghan President Hamid Karzai hopes Donald Trump will walk the talk on Pakistan and follow up on his recent fiery tweets with action to pursue Islamabad to stop its duplicity on terror. Speaking exclusively to The Tribune, Karzai advocated an India-China alliance as ideal for Afghanistan and regional connectivity. He suggested that the way out of the China-Pak Economic Corridor row for the two countries is to connect Afghanistan to Central Asia under the One Belt One Road Project so that India can come on board. Smita Sharma spoke to Hamid Karzai in Delhi. 

What is the one significant change you find in the US administration in its Af-Pak policy? 

President Trump’s admittance of Pakistan’s wrongdoing is nothing new for us. The way they have announced it is the new thing for us. Now, we are expecting the US to follow up on this revelation in action. If they really mean it, we in Afghanistan will cooperate with them because we have borne the brunt of this whole tragedy of extremism just like here in India. So it has to prove its words in action.

Aid suspensions have happened in the past too by previous US administrations. What looks different now in US-Pak ties?

Intensity of the language is new. There were things said in the past too with regards to Pakistan of its lack of honesty in war on terror. We heard President Obama, Hillary Clinton, Admiral Mullen talk about it. But having come from the current US President Trump in these very clear blatant words is a change. This prompts us to expect action. We hope there will be action. We don’t mean any ill-will towards Pakistan. We simply want Pakistan to stop using extremism as an instrument of policy vis-a-vis Afghanistan and terrorism as a tool vis-a-vis the neighbouring countries.

Has a more assertive China changed dynamics of the region? 

I have been working with China all along during my time in office and afterwards. China is not happy with the rise of extremism in the region or the use of extremism by Pakistan establishment as a tool. China is as much apprehensive about extremism as we all are. We hope China will do as much as it possibly can together with the rest of us to bring sense to Pakistan. China is one of the countries that we definitely know wants peace in Afghanistan because of its economic development, because of its One Belt One Road (OBOR) project, which is welcome. But China also knows that these economic projects cannot flourish or even see fulfilment with extremists around and with a close neighbour and ally of theirs doing it. 

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Why does China then back terror masterminds like Hafiz Saeed, Masood Azhar? Does it too, like the US, make a distinction between Taliban and Haqqani Network and India-centric terror groups like LeT, JeM?

That’s why things don’t work. We must recognise that we all have to be on one page on the same platform when it comes to fighting against extremism. Hafiz Saeed must be brought to justice and taken care of.

With the US pushing for more prominent India role, will it cause more friction with China-Pak axis against it?

No, I do not think so. I have had conversations with China on this issue. China and India are both our neighbours. Both rising powers, economic and political. Both have immense impact on developments in the rest of the region. With regard to Afghanistan impact of both countries is vast. We in Afghanistan find it very much in our interest to have both countries in a cooperative environment in Afghanistan and in case of extremism and terrorism in Pakistan.

After foreign ministers of Pak-Afghan-China met recently, there were indications that Afghanistan could join CPEC to which India has serious objections.

We have issues there too. Economically, we approve of this project but in terms of territorial disputes we do not. We have the Durand Line issue there, Baluchi rights issues. These are extremely different issues. So I hope mechanism can be found to address and take care of such issues. 

What is the alternative then? How do you link to OBOR without joining CPEC? 

We are always in support of connectivity. Afghanistan is a land-locked country. We have been endeavouring intensely to make sure India is connected to Afghanistan directly. We find it in our fundamental interest for India to be linked to Afghanistan. Pakistan is the impediment. So we try to find all other ways like Chabahar and other links. We believe that Chinese OBOR and the links it establishes to Iran, Central Asia are in the interest of Afghanistan and connectivity. Afghanistan is one such example where any infrastructural project that goes through the region suits us.

The ideal situation for us is an India-China alliance on connectivity and on other issues. If things are not good for us it does not affect the US much, it affects India as it affects China and Russia. So our effort all along has been a strong regional cooperation between the big powers in the region who are incidentally also big powers globally--India, China, Russia and also Iran. We hoped all along that sense would prevail over Pakistan and it would allow India to connect to Afghanistan. The option is for China to use Afghanistan as an alternative route to connect to West Asia and to other markets. That is a desire. 

Where do the talks with Taliban stand? 

There isn’t much talk with the Taliban. There is a great desire in Afghanistan for talks with the Taliban because we need to have peace. We cannot have peace without a settlement that cannot occur without talks between Taliban and Afghans. But right now I am not aware of any substantive talks between the Afghan government and Taliban.

Given Trump’s approach to Iran, if the nuclear deal were to be derailed, what impact would you assess on the region?

Negative. We supported President Trump’s tweet on Pakistan for obvious reasons that India did. India and Afghan stand in the same place with regard to that. We are united. On all other issues like the nuclear deal, climate change, sustainable development projects worldwide, we do not agree at all. I don’t at all endorse Trump’s stand and stand in opposition to that. The Iran nuclear deal is an important deal. It must work. And we hope that the US recognises that Iran is a major country in this part of the world. They must find ways of working with them.

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