THE TRIBUNE INTERVIEW: ‘BJP set to face India Shining drubbing’

THE TRIBUNE INTERVIEW: JAIRAM RAMESH, CONG GENERAL SECY (COMMUNICATIONS)

At the end of two phases of the 2024 Lok Sabha elections, Congress general secretary Jairam Ramesh speaks to Aditi Tandon on a range of issues dominating the national electoral landscape. Excerpts:

Your assessment of INDIA bloc prospects after two phases?

After the first round, it was clear that the momentum was with INDIA. After the second round too, we have the same assessment. Reasons: One, these are traditional strongholds of INDIA – Tamil Nadu and Kerala. Two, our assessment of Rajasthan where we were zero in 2019; Maharashtra where as a party we were 1 of 48 seats; Karnataka where we were 1 of 28 seats. In states where we were wiped out in 2019, this time the trends were encouraging.

And there’s a third reason too. The PM’s style of campaigning changed dramatically after Phase 1 on April 19. We released our Nyay Patra on April 5 and the BJP made expected comments for some days. But the diabolical manner in which the PM took it up after April 19, talking about Muslim League, mangalsutras being taken away. To me the dramatic reversal in the language and style of PM’s campaign betrayed a sense of nervousness and worry. That gives me the confidence that after two phases INDIA is comfortably ahead.

How many of these 190 seats could INDIA bloc win?

It would be the kind of mandate Congress and allies got in 2004 when we had pre-poll alliances and UPA was formed after the results came. I think 2024 will be a repeat of India Shining. My sense is there is no Modi wave. The people who have come out and voted for Modi are his hardcore supporters. I’ve not seen any first-time voters coming out in large numbers. I see urban voting very low.

What about low voter enthusiasm?

All I would say is that the Modi wave voter did not come out in the first two phases.

But the BJP can say the PM is covering all corners?

That’s a justification but the sharpness of the language and the frequency of the utterance of the distortions the PM is indulging in leads me to believe that this is borne not out of a carefully crafted strategy but out of a sense of worry. Why has 400 paar gone into the background?

PM says you will give SC, ST, OBC quota to Muslims?

After Bharat Jodo Yatra and Bharat Jodo Nyay Yatra, SCs, STs, OBCs and minorities consolidated behind the Congress. We won Karnataka where the JD(S) was wiped out. We won Telangana. The PM is trying to create a split in this social grouping which was coming out to favour the Congress.

But the Congress has long faced the minority appeasement charge?

It was LK Advani who first propagated the myth that this is minority appeasement.

AK Antony report also flagged minority appeasement for your 2014 loss.

Yes, but insisting that constitutional safeguards for the linguistic and religious minorities should be implemented is not appeasement, recognising the special provisions in the Constitution for minority educational institutions is not appeasement. I can’t think of a single instance where we have gone beyond the Constitution.

The PM is flagging your Karnataka model of Muslim quota as dangerous?

In Karnataka, there is a 1994 survey that categorises Muslims as backwards. That is the basis for our policy. Why is the BJP raking up the issue now?

Congress has historically opposed a caste census, why this change of heart?

From 1951 until 2011, caste as a category did not figure in the Census except for SCs and STs. But times have changed and there are new challenges. Deferring to political consensus in Parliament, the Congress government in 2011 commissioned an SECC. While deprivation data of SECC is being used for government schemes, caste data is yet to be published. We are demanding its publication.

Why so many of your leaders quitting for the BJP?

People have ambitions and vulnerabilities. Ideological commitment no longer matters. Many BJP leaders have also joined the Congress.

Should the Congress have accepted the Ram Mandir invite?

We are convinced that we must have clarity that religion is a private matter of faith. In 2004, our poll manifesto began with the words “back to the basics”. We need that same clarity. Ram Mandir consecration was a political event meant to glorify one person, not Maryada Purushottam Ram who in so many ways defines Indian civilisation. Don’t forget I have Ram in my first and last name.

Will you restore Art 370 if elected?

You cannot redo history all the time. You cannot be frozen in time. Although it is true that Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel was the Home Minister when Article 370 was incorporated into the Constitution and Syama Prasad Mookerjee was part of the Jawaharlal Nehru cabinet, 2024 is not 1947. We have to move on.

Your stand on UCC?

We are for full gender rights and equality not for a dictatorial order from the top. BS Chauhan-led Law Commission which the Modi government appointed said in 2018 that the UCC was neither necessary nor desirable at this stage.

BJP says you are proposing to raise the 50 % quota cap for Muslims?

This cap for SC, ST and OBC reservation was imposed by the SC in the 1982 Indra Sawhney judgment. Then came a 10 % quota for economically weaker sections. We propose a constitutional amendment to raise the 50 % reservation cap for SCs, STs, OBCs.

PM has attacked INDIA bloc for nepotism, appeasement, corruption?

Ten years ago, Ashok Chavan and Praful Patel were also corrupt. Now in the BJP, they have become paragons of virtue.

Will Rahul and Priyanka Gandhi contest Amethi and Rae Bareli?

Rahul has said he will do what the party says. The CEC has unanimously said Rahul contesting Amethi and Priyanka Rae Bareli would be good for the party.

Overall assessment of 2024 poll?

INDIA will get a clear majority. The Congress will be the single largest party like in 2004. The question of who will be PM was not asked in 2004.

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