"We need more women in decision-making
process"

URVASHI BUTALIA is not yet a household name. She is not your normal celebrity but in the publishing world she is a name to reckon with. Her Kali for Women publishing house is making waves. It has broken new ground by only publishing books related to women’s issues. She is also a writer; her latest look The Voices of Silence on the Partition brings out the trauma faced by women and children. It leaves a deep impact. A sensitively written book, it narrates the plight of the marginal groups during the holocaust. It uses the oral methodology, without becoming mushy or sentimental.

Urvashi’s most known facet is her fight for women’s causes. All her life, she has been a thinking, action-oriented feminist. However, she is unlike what one would think of a strident feminist. Instead, she is very feminine and polite. She talks softly but effectively. She is a woman who is believes in what she stands for but is not a man- hater. As she herself puts it, "Some of my best friends are men."

Belu Maheshwari met her in her spartan office in New Delhi recently for an exclusive interview. Excerpts:

What was so special in your childhood which made you a feminist?

I had a very normal middle class upbringing. My father was a free thinking journalist working for The Tribune even in Lahore. My mother was a teacher. My family left Lahore on August 14 at 9 a.m. in a truck which brought them to Ambala.

The only thing of consequence was that we, two brothers and two sisters, were brought up to think and act independently. My schooling was at Air Force School, Ambala. Then we moved to Delhi where my father took up a job with The Times of India and I studied at Jesus and Mary’s School and then joined Miranda House to do my BA (Hons.) in English literature. Till today, we are a very close-knit family. We live in my parents’ house in our separate areas which we have rented from them.

Was it your education which left an indelible mark?

Schooling was fun; college a little difficult because you have the problems of growing up. Iloved English literature. When I joined, my hazy aim was to become a teacher. Delhi University in early 70s was a place where issues were debated, discussed, and people fought for causes. I became the president of the college union. I fought an election without realising what we were doing. In fact, Miranda House was the first women’s college to become unionised.

Do you think educational institutions should be politicised? Aren’t there resultant problems of unionising?

At that time it meant differnet things. We were organising ourselves to fight for students’ causes, we were idealistic, there was no money involved in fighting elections. Per se, unionising is healthy. It provides a forum to air a section’s grievances in an orderly manner. But now unions have become vehicles for political parties to exploit. Now students fight on frivolous issues and do not take up real causes.

After your education what course did you chart out for yourself ?

In 1972, I started freelance work for Oxford University Press. I liked what I was doing though I was paid half of what I would have got in teaching. Then I was taken as a trainee in the production department of OUP. This was a very valuable experience. My boss was Abraham Bullock who was a great teacher, generous to a fault. It was here that my love affair with publishing started.

Publishing is like giving birth to a baby. You have to know about production, cartography, editorial etc.

What attracted you to feminism?

Even in college I was reading on feminism, specially on issues like suffrage, radical feminism. We heard of groups which were doing work for upliftment of women. Then a feeling started developing — Dimag mei kuch khadka-- that how are men better than us. I was equal if not better than them. My turning to feminism was a combination of a number of things.

How did you join the movement?

Some of us thought of an umbrella institution which would work for women. We got some space in ICCI and opened Samta with people like Veena Mazumdar. Manushri was an outcome of Samta. We were 11 founding members, though Madhu Kishwar denies it now. We took up issues like dowry. Then we started another group called Stree Sangharsh with Madhu Sarin, Radha Kumar, Amrita Chach. We launched anti-rape and dowry campaign. We did street theatre to send our message to the masses. Plays like Om Swaha on bride burning and Dafa 304 on rape. We were high on idealism, we went all over Delhi in buses, spent our own money to stage the plays. We saw so much tragedy because women with problems came and broke down.

Had you become totally involved in active feminism?

No. I was working with Thomson Press as editor in the children’s section. Then I had taken up part-time teaching job in a vocational college, teaching publishing. I was involved with feminist groups, my hands were full, but I was enjoying every minute of it. I was able to combine my idealism with my profession.

How was Kali born?

I got a Fulbright Scholarship to Hawaii for promotional work. I stopped on my way in England where my friends persuaded me not to go to Hawaii, "You do not know swimming and surfing. What will you do there?" I stayed in England and worked for Zed for 2 years. By the time I came back I had talked myself into starting my own production house. I am basically a lazy person, so I was slightly hesitant. I got a feasibility study conducted in January ’84. Ritu Menon heard of my idea and contacted me. We started Kali as a trust so that we could get donations. We first published a diary whose theme was ‘Women’s Movement in India’. It was a hit. We sold 2000 copies, the idea was appreciated.

Don’t you think that the women’s movements in India are confined to a few educated, urban women?

I do not agree. We think it is flowing from us downwards and vice versa. The rural women and even of the depressed classes might not call their fight ‘feminism’ but they have also learnt to fight injustice. They are quite active in the nav nirman of society.

Aren’t you confusing need- based movements as feminism?

There are many strands working simultaneously, some are need-based, some ideological but they overlap also. Today women are raising questions which are troubling men. In the Telengana movement, a woman had to make a choice between her child and joining the movement, she chose the latter.

Why is it that none of the women’s movement has longevity, for e.g., movements on prohibition?

There is never a linear way in a fight of such immense magnitude. Feminism is not a easy course, it progresses in a lateral movement. There are no complete successes or failures. Feminism is a profound movement, it is very frightening to women also. Even activists are learning all the time. We have to judge them with tolerance.

What does feminism mean to you?

I feel very complete from my feminism. It has taught me a lot, specially to live a life of dignity. Feminism is a wide term, anyone can read anything into it. To me it means treating people as equals, not show even a menial worker as lowly.

Do you think women have to be equal with men in all areas and spheres to come on par with them ?

They are different sexes, we need to live in a world which is not fragmented into identities. We need to live together in a socio-cultural contract born out of enriching differences, the woman should have a choice to decide about herself. In the world we live in, it does not allow her a choice. That is the unfairness. I have the luxury and support to live my life myself, that is equality and justice.

Have the activists thought of enlisting the support of men?

Movements take tentative steps, they are not fully thought out, either in terms of action or ideology. There are mistakes made, we accept them. Now we find there is value in allaying the fears of men. Moreover, they have changed. We have men working in our groups.

Hasn’t emancipation of women led to a double burden on them?

Certainly it has. Till men pitch in, it is likely to be this way. To gain some, you give some but at least it is some progress, some economic security. We are aware that a woman who works outside has to work in her house like any other housewife.

What is your opinion on the women’s reservation issue?

I feel reservation should be there for a limited period. Interestingly, for panchayati raj reservation for women there was no opposition because men thought it was just a proxy for them. At the state and national level, men are scared. We need more women in the decision-making process.

What are your future plans?

As far as I am concerned, I am an optimist. Kali, my dream, has taken off. It should do better. My book has been well received. I want to explore further avenues for developing my writing. Even in the movement we are heading towards positive growth.