We’ve demolished Modi, he’s scared: Rahul

Aditi Tandon in Gwalior 

Congress president Rahul Gandhi spoke exclusively to The Tribune on Wednesday on a range of issues en route to Gwalior where he had three election rallies. Excerpts:

The Lok Sabha elections are winding up. Who is forming the next government?

The Congress-led UPA will form the next government. I think there is an undercurrent of anger against Narendra Modi and his policies. Youngsters are unable to understand where they will get jobs from. Farmers are struggling with their future. Then there is the devastation that notebandi and the “Gabbar Singh Tax” have caused to the economy. Corruption is also a big issue. Modi cannot answer even a single question on the Rafale deal.

THE TRIBUNE INERVIEW: ‘In touch with like-minded parties, sure of Congress-led UPA victory’

You seem very confident that the Congress is coming to power with its alliance.

That’s the feeling I’m getting from the people I’m meeting across India and from the energy and enthusiasm of the crowds coming to our rallies and roadshows. Frankly, even people who are in the BJP are saying “Modi ko toh hatana hai”.

In that case, will you be the PM next month?

Look, the decision of who is going to become the PM is in the hands of the people of India. They will decide on May 23, what ideology they choose and whom they choose. I am no one to second guess that. I do my work, and I’m very clear in my mind what my work is. I want to help India recover from the wholesale hate that Modi has spread in the last five years.

Parties have already begun holding post-poll strategy meets. K Chandrasekhar Rao met Left leaders on Tuesday. What are your plans? 

The UPA is fighting as an alliance. We have an internal, ongoing conversation with our partners. We also have like-minded parties that are not in our alliance but agree with our ideology and we are in touch with them.

The BJP has been very aggressive and considering what they did in Goa and Arunachal Pradesh, are you prepared for the post-poll scenario?

The BJP is not going to form the government. It’s not going to happen.

Just in case the numbers don’t stack up in the way you’re expecting, would you be open to supporting a non-Congress government?

I’m not going to make any comments on the numbers before I see the numbers.

The BJP has made nationalism and national pride their principal poll planks. Is that working? 

Is having the highest unemployment rate in 45 years a matter of national pride? Modi is responsible for that. Is there any national pride in farmer suicides, an absurd decision like notebandi, a five-tiered GST, constant harassment of shopkeepers, stealing Rs 30,000 crore from the public in Rafale? How can you (BJP) talk about national pride?

We understand that national security is a very important issue and the Congress has an impeccable record on that front. It wasn’t the Congress that sent Masood Azhar back to Pakistan. We didn’t put our minister on the aircraft to Kandahar. We didn’t pay Jaish-e-Mohammad money and release their leader. Modi should explain to India why his party released Masood Azhar and sent him back to Pakistan. Why he was unable to stop deaths of our CRPF men. Look, I understand that Pakistan will try and do whatever mischief it can, but it’s the responsibility of the PM to counter that mischief. And the PM says there have been no terrorist attacks in the last five years, I don’t know what he’s talking about. Which country is he talking about? What planet is he living on? Pulwama happened during his time. Uri happened during his time. Pathankot happened during his time. Maoists have been killing people during his time. 

So you think he uses nationalism as a prop?

Mr Modi makes excuses. According to him, he has never done anything wrong in his life. He has never failed either! He is all-knowing, according to himself. To maintain that image, he will come up with all sorts of excuses. But he is not going to be able to escape with excuses this time. And that is why he is abusing my family in panic. He is actually a sentiment. He’s the sentiment of anger and fear within people. That’s what he actually represents. So when you get angry, and when you have anger in you, that is Mr Modi. That is the sentiment. My job is to remove that anger. I respond to that anger with love and affection. So when Mr Modi gets angry with me and insults my family, and anger rises in me, or in a sense when the Modi in me rises, I recognise it for what it is worth and I erase it immediately. That’s what I’m doing; it’s an internal process as well. It’s about curbing my irritation and anger and turning it into love and affection. That’s the nature of this country.

Your recent campaign videos show shots of cremation of late PMs Indira Gandhi and Rajiv Gandhi. Do you think the Congress did not do enough to establish the martyrdom of these leaders?

We’re not in the business of selling the martyrdom of our martyred. There is nothing secret about their lives. We are not thekedaars of the past. We must stay focussed on the present.  Today, India is facing a massive challenge. Yes,  Indiraji and Rajivji sacrificed their lives for this country. But their sacrifices are not going to solve our problems today. So I don’t want to get sucked into a conversation about the past. That’s a distraction. 

Your poll slogans, “suit, boot ki sarkar” and “chowkidar chor hai” are catchy. How far do you get involved in coining these?

Suit boot sarkar is a retort I came up with in Parliament. 

But chowkidar chor hai actually came from the public. In a speech in Chattisgarh I said “chowkidar ne rozgaar nahi diya, chowkidar ne kisan ko kuch nahi diya”  and there were five-seven youngsters who yelled “Chowkidar chor hai!”  There is a sentiment inside the people that the chowkidar is actually a thief.

Do you think your apology in the Supreme Court today takes some sheen off the slogan?

No it certainly does not! The apology is to the Supreme Court and the reason I apologised to the SC, is because it was wrong of me to pre-judge a process of the SC. But I am not apologising to Mr Modi or to anyone else. The slogan is just as strong.

Do you think the PM’s recent comments on your late father Rajiv Gandhi are in response to your “chowkidar chor hai” campaign? 

No, he’s scared!  He’s basically been outmanoeuvred. Frankly, he’s not the political force he was made out to be. We’ve demolished him. Now , he’s abusing me. And I’m absorbing  that abuse. He has taught me how to react to hatred. So he has done me a big service. The last five years I’ve realised you can’t cut hatred with hatred. You have to cut hatred with love and that’s the gift Mr Modi has given me. And that’s why I have love for him. I thank him for giving me this gift. It has changed my life.

You don’t get angry? You never get angry?

Very rarely. Sometimes I do get irritated and angry, but I wash it off really soon. 

The Delhi and Punjab elections are due and the PM is raising the anti-Sikh riot issue. How do you respond to this?

I love the people of Punjab, who supported us in the hardest times. Whatever pains the people of Punjab, pains me. My job is to deepen the love between the people of Punjab and the Congress, its leaders and myself. In many ways, Punjab is the heart of India. It gives direction to this country, it shows this country how to live together, how to work hard. Recently, the state gave us a huge mandate. I want to say that I’m extremely fond of and have great respect for the Sikhs. I love their way of being, their industrious spirit, their great saints and leaders. I have learnt a tremendous amount from their gurus.

Do you have a message for the victims of the anti-Sikh riots as justice hasn’t been done?

Justice must be given 100%.  Anybody who has done anything must be punished.

It’s your first Lok Sabha poll after you took over as Congress chief. Does it make you nervous?

Do I look nervous? No, I’m not. Because I’m of the view that one has to work. And one works and whatever result comes, one is happy with that. So I don’t get nervous. I see myself as somebody who is working in the interest of the people of India. 

What’s the composition of your core team?

I take advice from many people. I have senior people who I listen to a lot, I have junior people, there are workers in the party whose advice I value.

You repeatedly said throughout the last year that your goal is to primarily defeat Modi but...

My goal is to actually remove the anger and hatred that has been spread in India over the last 5 years. And Mr Narendra Modi is the symbol of that. So I want to help bring the nation together. 

There was an expectation that Priyanka Gandhi Vadra would contest from UP…

There was no expectation. I was clear.

Should you win both Amethi and Wayanad. Will Priyanka Gandhi Vadra contest Amethi?

Let the election be over. Once it is over, that decision will be made.

Can you comment on the Backops controversy and your dual citizenship?

I’ve said that the PM is the PM, he can investigate whatever he wants. It’s an open book. If I’ve done anything wrong please punish me. But also, do me a favour, investigate Rafale! Please tell us about the Rafale kickback. Also, I’ve challenged him repeatedly to a debate. But he hasn’t responded. 

In Punjab, top guns have been fielded by the BJP and the Akali Dal, could Manpreet Badal and Navjot Singh Sidhu not have been in the fray?

We have left the candidate selection to the local party unit and we’ve put up a very strong set of candidates who will do extremely well. I think we’re going to sweep Punjab. 

Leaders like Mayawati, Kejriwal and Akhilesh Yadav have attributed the failure of an anti-BJP pre-poll alliance to Congress arrogance. How can you say they will still work with you post-poll?

The Congress is not arrogant. In fact in both UP and Delhi, we were ready to form an alliance.  We wanted to do UP, but the SP and the BSP felt that they wanted to fight alone. So we said okay fine, fight alone. In Delhi, we had a discussion with AAP. They had agreed to a 4-3 seat sharing, but Kejriwal said we want Haryana and Punjab too. After which, we decided not to tie up.

Smriti Irani calls you an absentee MP in Amethi. Your response?

The people of Amethi know that I am with them, that I have worked for them, that I am grateful for their love and support, and it is only their opinion and their voice that truly matters to me. 

In hindsight would it have been better for you to join UPA-II led by PM Manmohan Singh in some capacity?

I don’t regret any of my past actions or decisions.

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On next PM of the country

It is not my place to second guess the people of India (on their choice of next PM). They are the masters, whatever they decide I will abide by it. They are very wise, whatever order they give, I will abide by it.

On overcoming challenges

If we have differences, let’s work on them together… we have challenges in front of one another that we need to overcome. Jobs, farmers distress are not easy challenges… and we are only going to overcome them if we work together.

On BJP share in UP poll pie

Secular parties are going to win the largest number of seats there (in UP). We are basically going to demolish the BJP in UP. Projections that I’m reading these days say the BJP is winning not more than 8-10 seats in UP.